Mark [0:00] I’d like to welcome Janet Kafadar to the World Heart of Connection podcast. I’m your host, Mark Randall. Janet is a career exit strategist and an online mentor. And I met Janet through a dear friend of mine, Mariana, who’s now left Australia and residing overseas in Germany. And they’re going through this summer over there now. Welcome, Janet.
Janet [0:24] Oh, thank you so much, Mark. Thank you for having me. Pleasure.
My Connection to Career Exiting
Mark [0:28] Your connection to career exiting and where did that come from? And how did it manifest?
Janet [0:36] Yeah, more so career exit strategist. How it manifested is, I’ve been in online business or have my own online business for about seven years now. And at the very beginning stages, the whole premise of starting my business was because of my kids. I have three kids under nine. So, eight, seven months and four and I really wanted to and felt really disenchanted and really upset with how the kind of corporate avenues of working. To however old which – that was my only option. I really hated the fact that I couldn’t be there for my children when I wanted to be as and when I wanted to be.
Connecting to my Freedom
So, really freedom was the main catalyst for me getting started. And how it came to be the business I had at the time, of course, creation agency. I used to help people create and develop online courses, the curriculum, with the content, all that stuff. But I really felt after about four years of doing that, and building it up and building up a team, I felt really disconnected from it. I felt like I was just going through the motions. I’ve got to the point, which is great. I didn’t have to do much. I had a team behind it, but I just fell out of love with it.
Mark [1:59] How did you notice your disconnection from it?
Experiencing & Noticing my Disconnection
Janet [2:01] An interesting question. I felt like I was just going through the motion. And something that was quite pivotal for me is that I would create a lot of videos I used to put them out on YouTube. And that’s how I got a lot of my new clients. They would see me do tutorials on things and then they had reached out to me which was great. And then suddenly there was like nothing. It’s almost like – the leads dried up and there was no one reaching out to me. I just didn’t care. I got to a point with I don’t care if you want to work with me or not. And that’s not the approach to take. I know when you when you’re in business, is you love your clients; you love reaching out and connecting with people. And I just didn’t care. I just was completely over it. I didn’t want to talk about it anymore. I didn’t want to talk about someone saying. ‘oh, I want to create a course,’ I don’t care. That’s how I knew within myself that there’s something wrong.
Corporate World, Women & Children
Mark [3:07] Was it a hard decision being in the corporate world, then to shift because you’ve got three young children. In the corporate world, how do you connect to children when you’re in the corporate world that must be difficult for women to make those sorts of calls?
Janet [3:24] It is. It is hard to make that decision. Like, there are so many instances like I’ve got stories for days. But one instance that really got me going and was one of the reasons behind why I got my business going. I was sitting in a boardroom and for some reason at that time – I took my phone into the boardroom with me. I saw that it was vibrating, and I picked it up and looked at it. And it was my children’s daycare. So, I had two kids at that time, and they were both in daycare. OMG, okay – I will – I’ll go and see, picks up the phone answered it. Your sons got like 42-degree temperature. Can you come and get him? Yes, absolutely no questions about that. I would just go and do it. And so, in this meeting, I whispered to my boss and said to him, I’ve got to go because my son’s sick. And he quite loudly with a loud voice said, Oh, is it possible you could stay? It’s only two o’clock now you’re finishing a five. You might as well just stay. And it was at that moment. I was like, No, I can’t say they are sick. They need me.
Connecting to my Children instead of the Corporation
So, I need to go and get them. It’s not a question about whether I can stay. And I have put in my sick leave whatever it is, but that really triggered me, and it just really got me fired up. And the thing is that many women just don’t have the – you just don’t have space and the freedom to support your kids as much as you want to. And there’s always that guilt that sits with us. And as women, we sit with that guilt. And we always feel like the worst Mum in the world and having to go to work and drop the kids to daycare and all that stuff. So, it still doesn’t go away, even though I’ve got a better business, but it’s not as bad. But yeah, it’s, it’s hard. It’s not easy at all. So, it was a good opportunity for me to be like, you know what, I’m smart enough. I can figure this out. I’m going to do it on my own.
Connecting to the New Exiting the Old
Mark [5:29] In the corporate world, as you were ~ I’m just curious about the connection to exiting strategies. A career exit strategy that is preparing oneself to leave one career and commence a new one. The connection to that transition period, is that sometimes difficult and confusing for people from your experience?
Janet [5:54] It’s interesting. By the time that people normally come to me, they’ve already had an idea. They know what the possibility is. They know what the possibility is. But they’ve already been in a place of either feeling completely disenchanted with their career. How things are going, maybe they’ve had problems with promotions or being overstepped for promotions. Or issues with their boss or whatever it is and know that they want to do something more. Know that they want to do something more for themselves. And what I talk about with a lot with my community and my clients is that you’re not jumping off to do something completely different. You know, whatever your business is, whatever you start now won’t be the business that you’ll have in six months, one year, five years down the line, it will look completely different.
Leveraging your Skills online
But really, it’s about leveraging your expertise, and what you already know. Like all the skills, all the soft skills, all the things that you’ve done in your life that have brought you here. And leveraging those to be able to get your business started. So, you’re not really jumping off from like, oh, I’m going to go from working in learning and development into graphic design when you have no when you’ve never done that. And it’s about looking at where you are right now and using that to help move you forward and to bridge that gap to exiting your career.
Mark [7:26] And what’s it like been for you to exit that corporate career and connect to the online world?
Connecting to what I Love
Janet [7:33] Yeah, it was – I didn’t find it difficult at all. I loved it. I have a degree in marketing. So, it was great being able to use it to some degree. Now what they teach you in university is a lot of theory, then it’s now completely different from how it is now. But I still have that foundation behind me. But it’s been interesting. Like, I didn’t think I would know – I got my business going a lot quicker. It took me years to get going. And it’s only when I reached a certain point of, oh my God, I’m not actually doing anything. I’m just doing, potentially the sales call with people but it felt great. But it was hard. It’s not easy. And I don’t want anyone to ever believe that starting an online business and all that stuff is a piece of cake and it’ll happen in 20 days. No, it doesn’t, it takes persistence.
Missing the Collegial Connection
Mark [8:32] As you’re venturing into the online world and the connection there. Did you then at any stage miss the social camaraderie and the collegial connection from the corporate world?
Janet [8:47] So interestingly enough, I did miss that in some ways. I did miss that connection with people, but I found that so after I had my agency, I moved into coaching. Coaching women to be able to exit their careers and create their own online businesses, mostly online coaching businesses. And I felt that brought the connection back to me. And I was able to at least be able to be a part of having those conversations with people. And, I’m building up my own community. And so, I have a Facebook group with about 250 women in the group and I love it. I love being a part of that group because it just, I think it brings that element back to connecting with people again, but you don’t necessarily get when you are in an office and staff. And I found also that having my peers who are either in the same boat as me, same journey, and being a part of a mastermind, myself has really helped too. So that I don’t feel lonely because the loneliness of entrepreneurship is real. Like, there will be hours and hours where you’re just working on your own. So, yeah, having those different elements inside, connecting with people, catching up with them even locally has really helped.
How I connect to myself
Janet [10:25] So, my day normally starts around – I’m normally up around 6 am. And I go to the gym at 6:40 am. So, well I roll out of bed at 20 past six and then sprint to the gym. And for me, that is how I must start my day. So, I go to the gym probably about four times a week, and it’s just helped me clear my mind. And it’s that time of the day that is just mine. There’re no kids around, no husband around, and I don’t have to do anything else. But it’s just for me – for 40 minutes I get to just have that time. And for me, I’ve found that that’s important, especially with how things have been, especially with the pandemic and everything. Just having that time to me, is always been my form of meditation. And then once I’ve done that, I come home and help me get my kids ready for school. And then I start my day around 9:30 am or so. Yeah, that’s how I pretty much start. I don’t have any practices that I tend to do. I just write down maybe two or three things that I need to get done for the day and I don’t pack – overpack my day with things that I need to do. I think I’m one of those people that keep things very streamlined. And I run a very simple structured business. It’s not too overly complicated because I’ve got to be there for my family, which is the whole reason why I started the business. So yeah, that’s pretty much my practice.
Keeping Connected to your High Energy
Mark [11:54] And how do you keep connected to your high energy because I love watching your videos when you’re doing them in the car. I assume have you dropped the kids off by them, and you’re then doing some of those conversations on Facebook lives?
Janet [12:08] Yes, so I used to do a lot of them back in the day, pre-COVID. Yes, I used to do them in my car. And that was when I was still working my day job. Actually, in between all of this, I went back to work after I fell out of love for the work that I was doing with the agency. I went back and started working again. Anyway, up until June I finished up and wrapped up that contract. But how I used to do videos for my car before I started work, and I was really – to keep my energy up, you would never find me doing a video at the end of the day. I think I did one video at the end of the day and I just – I think I deleted it because I was flat. So, for me, it was really and still today with all the work that I do and publish and everything. I always work in the morning. So, I’m high energy first thing in the morning because I’ve been to the gym, I’ve started my day, right? I feel great. And that’s when I do them. And that’s how I feel really connected to myself. I know myself well. And I know that that’s – I show best than any other time. Don’t ask me to do anything in the evening because I’m a complete mess. I can’t speak.
Connecting to my Down Time
Mark [13:26] So, you connected to downtime then?
Janet [13:29] Yeah, exactly. It’s like my time to refuel, recharge, spend it with my family. See how the day went – to be my time.
Mark [13:40] I always believe we need to disconnect to reconnect. Yes, absolutely. Really, important self-care that. In connecting online, how do you keep the energy going to allow it to flow through? Flow-through the ether to other people, you’ve got a very high magnetism. There’s and I love watching that energy about you. How do you notice that? How do you because there’s not always the feedback, you know, when we’re having the interpersonal conversation, we’ve got the visual cues coming back. How do you keep yourself focused on that magnetism and without the feedback?
Janet [14:26] And I always say something to my clients is that it’s different with social media. You know, if you’re promoting yourself on social media, doing videos connecting, we get that endorphin rush and that self-gratification instantly, always. But and I know we don’t have that in every person. It’s completely different people can do that. But when you’re publishing and doing anything online, it’s not so much about worrying about whether people will instantly resonate with that or say something, or comment, or anything like that. I’m not focused on that.
Connecting to the people in the Background
I’m more focused on the people in the background. Because there are people and what I mean by that – is that there are always people who are watching, listening, subscribing, but not actually doing anything. That’s completely fine. And those, I have to say more than anything, are normally the people that come and start working with me. Because they’ve been watching for some time, they’ve been listening to what I’ve been doing. But they haven’t been commenting or haven’t been subscribing and that’s completely fine. I’m not looking for the instant gratification. I’m not looking for views or the number of subscribers it’s not the metric to focus on. I think always the best way to think about it is – I just need to show up as my best self. I need to show up. Show every day for that person that needs to hear me today. They may not be commenting, they may not be saying anything, but I know that it will land with someone and they needed to hear that. And that for me is what I always keep in mind. Because it’s happened to me on so many occasions where I have been either a bit lost or confused or don’t know what to do or how to do something, or whatever it is. And God knows how it does – the universe, aligning me with whatever struggle I have. And someone will say something, and it will just, it can just be a sentence. It can just be a couple of words. And like, I needed to hear that today. And that is what I always strive to achieve.
Putting my Connection Out there Online
Mark [16:42] Well done. You’re putting ~ it’s like you’re putting the connection out there. Just emulating it out there and people are going pick up on it when they need to pick up on it?
Janet [16:53] That’s right when they need it – it will be there for them. And when they need the answer to that question, it will be there for them. And it won’t be, it might not be the whole thing that they need. But it could be just that small thing. And I think one of the things is just for myself, just what I’ve learned over the years, excuse me – is to just to show up as me. And not try and be anything else. Not try and be anyone else. I am who I am. Like if you met me in person, I’m the same – no different.
Just Being Me – My Connection
Mark [17:28] I can pick that up ~ no worries (Laughter).
Janet [17:32] Exactly the same.
Mark [17:34] And that’s what I like about you. You are just you and you carry that well. There’s is ~ that’s the magnetism to you.
Janet [17:45] Thank – thank you so much.
Mark [17:47] In your experience, are there differences between women’s need for connection and men’s need for connections?
The difference in Women & Men’s Connection
Janet [17:57] I found that women’s needs for connection are so much stronger, and especially right now with how everything is. The isolation and the loneliness of women who are working from home. They have now lost that and that stuff that’s now completely disappeared. And now women, especially my clients now working from home trying to figure things out and it’s lonely. And so, I found that for women more so, they’ve really needed that. But thinking back to my male clients, they have not been so open about it, but I know that they value it. They know I know that they value being a part of a community and being part being a part of something bigger than themselves, which is the same for women as well. But they may not say it outrightly. But I know that they love that as well. So yeah, there is a difference between the two.
Women Openly Connect to Vulnerability
Mark [19:05] Are women more prepared to share the vulnerability of the need for that connection, whereas men are not prepared to share the vulnerability about the need for that connection?
Janet [19:14] Yes. And I think with men, it’s more so having to reword it. So, I wouldn’t necessarily say the same things to my female clients as I would to my male clients. I think it’s just about rewording it a little bit differently. So, I’d say like I had a client call coaching group coaching call this morning. So, I said to my ladies, how you’re going – what’s going on for you? What did you get up to today? And they’ll go, oh my god, this has happened and completely open to sharing. Whereas, I found that with male clients as well may not be. Some are obviously more connected than others but haven’t been and having to just rephrase it – I found that even what did you work on today, like really, almost – what’s the word?
Being UpFront with Connecting to Men
Mark [20:04] More matter of factly?
Janet [20:05] Yes – yeah, exactly. Just coming out at point-blank. What did you work on today? How did it go? And then they may say, and then it’s more, having to use more of your own coaching skills to unpack what it is that they were trying to say. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? What happened? What showed up for you, then digging just a little bit deeper. Whereas I think that women are just open to sharing all time, not all the time, but often if they feel in a safe space. Yes, they will just share.
Mark [20:34] Do women have more trust in that connection than men?
Women have more Trust in Connections
Janet [20:41] I think so. I think they do to a certain degree. I think women, I think when the trust is there, just like with anything, like with any relationship or any formal engagement or whatever. When the trust is there, they trust you. They trust that you’re the perfect person to say support them. I think they’re in the more open to sharing. But also, knowing that and I think this is where – why I work specifically with women is and who are looking to exit their career. I’ve been there, and I know exactly where they’re at. So, there’s no story that they can’t tell me that I haven’t experienced, or I haven’t heard before from a previous client, or whatever it is. I understand their struggle to a tee. And I think that really helps that with that level of trust. Whereas with men it’s slightly different.
Mark [21:33] You’ve got that connection to the lived experience that you can then share and resonate when people are going through it themselves?
Janet [21:40] Yes, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right.
Connections to Others Enlivens Me
Mark [21:44] In terms of connection to others, do you find that you need to have that connection? Does the connection to others help enliven your connection to self and others?
Janet [21:56] Yes, yeah, I have. And I think that’s it so important. And one thing that I found is that when I had my agency before – the previous version of my business, I didn’t really have anyone that I connected with. I was just like, busy building it on my own. And, having brought on team members all that stuff and I had no one to really talk to about it. I think that was one of the biggest issues and I think why also fell out of love with it. Is that I didn’t really have anyone to connect with outside of either my clients or my team members. I just busy, lonely sitting here at my desk. If you think about it from an outside perspective – now sitting there, hours on end, at my desk on calls every now and again, talking to my computer creating videos. And if I wasn’t really speaking to anyone else. I think I didn’t realise until obviously I stopped that that’s what was missing. So, for me now, it’s important that I have peers that I meet up with – a few of my past clients and even friends that live here in Canberra. So, I connect with them every couple of weeks. I have an accountability partner that I connect with. And probably once every two weeks or so, and we connect on messenger. Like that’s been, I think, important and really made the difference in making sure that I don’t lose my marbles in the process. And then keep my energy alive to support my community because that’s – if my energy is not there, then I can’t support them. I can’t show as my best self. So yes, that’s been important.
Mark [23:41] And connections are important for us people, isn’t it? It’s that ~ there’s sort of a ~ there’s a conscious reality but under that ~ is that deep need just for that ~ just that knowing someone’s there?
Accepting our Deep Need for Connections
Janet [23:59] Yes. Yeah, exactly.
Mark [24:03] And to reach out and to know that, hey, it’s okay to reach out. I need that connection. And go and seek that connection.
Janet [24:13] Yes, yeah, absolutely. I have my peers that I connect with me. I’m having the worst day all this happened. Oh, my goodness, I’ve been there or don’t worry. It will change – have you thought about this? Or, you know, it’s just that kind of thing. Even recently, talking to a friend of mine, I just said, can I just talk to you about my client’s business? I just needed, to talk it out with someone that understood where I was coming from. And, yeah, it’s so important. Like that saying you’d have that water cooler conversation with someone if you’re at work. But when you’re on your own, you don’t have that. So, it’s about you having to build that into your life and your structure and everything that you’re doing.
Developing Self-Care Post Corporate Life
Mark [24:59] Yes, it’s an important self-care because in the corporate world ~ you can just debrief as you’re getting a cup of coffee just the natural debriefing and bouncing stuff off each other to just check-in.
Janet [25:12] Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly right.
Mark [25:15] As part of this world had a connection podcast conversation, I then move into the esoteric side of life. The connection to the ‘All That Is.’ How does Janet connect to the ‘All That Is’ whatever that is to her?
Connecting to my ‘All That Is’
Janet [25:31] And I try to as much as possible – so, I believe in God and so I go to church on Sundays 9;30 am. I think for me, I’m not a big meditator. I’m not a big prayer or anything like that. I don’t set aside like specific times of the day to do that. But I do like that, I have a scheduled time if you’d like to put it. Where I can just connect with my higher power – to connect with God, just to be silent for that hour. Like it’s just about connecting to that. And I found that that’s been helpful like before I never used to go to church, think about it all that much until I had kids. And then, it’s asking for that guidance if I’m feeling a little bit – go through the week or whatever and sitting and just having that time to ask for guidance or get that additional clarity. And often Sunday mornings are just like the day I’m like ‘bing’ – I get like new ideas or things come to me or, the suggestion to do x, y, z. Okay, let me think that through and excellent. So, I think for me, that’s how I found it to be the best thing for me. I’m not big like, oh, I’m going to sit and meditate in the morning. I can’t get out of bed unless I’m going to the gym. This is how I work it into my life.
My Connection to God & Church
Mark [27:12] Yeah. What do you experience when you’re in church and you connect to that? God the higher power? What do you experience happens in your body? Is there a clearing that goes on in your body, in your mind as to connect to that high power?
Janet [27:27] Yeah, you know what’s interesting, I feel it’s almost like a bit of a relief. Oh, not even a relief, more like a decompression. That’s how it feels to me. I sit there, I’m listening to the priest or father speech and I’m just like, Ah. It’s just like that, everything has happened during the week. It’s like I don’t have a very stressful life at all. But everything that’s gone on is just now just like Ah, I can just let it go. I can just listen. And I think that’s the thing. And that’s the key with anything, though, isn’t it? It’s really making sure that you’re listening. You’re listening to God universe, whatever your higher power is, and listening for that guidance. And sometimes it doesn’t happen straightaway sometimes it’s a day or two later. But I found that it just allows me just to decompress from the rest of the week. And I just let that – I think it’s being I think it’s almost like sounds silly but is allowing God to use me. To allow me to listen, and he will – he has a pass for me anyway. So, listening to what he says, and that’s how it feels for me.
The church is My Spiritual Recharge
Mark [28:45] Is that like an energetic recharge for you, when you’re in that zone? It’s just a clearing and you’re just so connected and, in that connection, how important is that to your well-being?
Janet [28:59] Yes, it’s really important. You know what I found interesting. And it’s only in the last, I think probably last month or so that the church has reopened again. And then it’s opened due to just limited numbers. But between March or so when it closed due to COVID-19. And up until, July or so, it was closed. And that was – I felt like it was taken away from me. Well, it was taken – that connection was taken away. And so, it was a crazy town here at my house. Kid having to do their schoolwork from home. School from home and then I was still having to, wrap up my job and have my business and it was just crazy and I missed that. That time, that was dedicated to that I spend Sunday morning 9:30 am to 10:30 am just to get that decompression and that time and I just didn’t have any space. To just do that and have that quiet time to myself. I tried it a few times, but it wasn’t the same. It was it was hard. So, it’s important for me to keep that up and I notice it when – if there’s a week or whatever and I can’t go and yeah, I missed that. And I try and go at least try and go to service during the week in the evenings or something.
Connection to God & Church Lifts my Heart
Mark [30:24] And how much does it lift your heart when you’re in that space?
Janet [30:28] Oh, immensely. It makes me feel like I am – it lifts my heart but it also – it’s like, it sounds a bit silly but like, you know, not pins and needles but like, bing bing bing. I don’t know how to explain it. It’s like that. Feeling – like tingling of more a tingle – Zen’d out – calm feeling. I can’t explain it. I don’t know if I’m doing a good job.
Mark [31:07] Look, it’s not easy to. Everybody has in this conversation at this point, it’s hard to put cognitive words to the inner experience. Is there a piece of advice that you ~ are there one piece of advice that you would give a younger Janet about to embark on her career journey?
My Advice for Younger Janet ~ Patience
Janet [31:27] And one, be patient, be patient. Patience is the key and patience if you want to build your business or whatever that looks like for you. Be patient with yourself, because it doesn’t happen overnight. It’s a long, it’s a long game. And there’s a reason why not everyone is building a business is that it’s hard. Very hard, but the people that want to – have – make a difference. And the people that are meant to be on this path are meant to be following it. So just be patient. The other part of it is, listen. Listen to your heart, listen to what your higher power is saying to you. And ask for guidance in that respect. Ask them what should I be doing? What is it? How am I supposed to be showing up? What should I be doing? And I think that’s something that’s really overlooked. And that it’s almost very like that kind of masculine energy. You got to do. But, it’s more about the other side of it. And just actually listening to what’s being done or being said and being passed through you. And then moving on those actions and those thoughts that have come through. I think that’s important, and not a lot of people follow that.
Mark [32:55] Well done. Janet, where can people find you online? Where can they find your mentoring?
Connecting to my Online Mentoring
Janet [33:02] You can find me over at Janet Kafadar.com. That’s my website, Kafadar. Janet Kafadar.com. And you can find – I have a podcast called the “The Truth about Show” as well, where I talk about, the untold truths of starting an online business. Or you can find me on Facebook, I’m pretty much everywhere. So, Janet Kafardar, search, you’ll find me.
Mark [33:26] I really want to say thank you so much for your wisdom. Thank you for the connection. I remember the conversation, the phone conversation we had a few months ago. I connected with you on that conversation. I love your magnetism. I love your energy. And you’re wonderful at what you do. And I really appreciate you taking the time to share your inner wisdom on the World Heart Connection Podcast.
Janet [33:53] Honestly, thank you. Thank you for having me. And thank you for asking me questions I haven’t been asked before. So, always nice to have those great deep conversations.? Thank you
Mark [34:03] Great appreciate it ~ Namaste
Transcribed by https://otter.ai