My Connection to Radio ~ Episode 92 ~ My Conversation with Neil Butler

Heart of Connection Podcast
Heart of Connection Podcast
My Connection to Radio ~ Episode 92 ~ My Conversation with Neil Butler

My Connection to Radio

Mark [0:00] I’d like to welcome Neil Butler to the World Heart of Connection podcast. I’m your host Mark Randall. Neil is a broadcaster, a podcaster with the WOW podcast and several others in a small business owner. Welcome to the podcast now.

Radio web site:         

Business web site:     

Neil [0:14] Thanks, Mark. Nice to be here. Neil

Connecting to the Other Side of the Radio

Mark [0:16] Mate, what’s it like to be on the other side of the fence?

Neil [0:19] It is a little bit weird; I’ve got to say. Often when you host radio programmes, when you’re being interviewed on a radio programme, you think I should be pushing the buttons over there. Leave me alone.

Mark [0:32] What got you into radio and broadcasting and the whole box and dice?

My Connection to Radio

Neil [0:38] It was a complete and utter fluke; I’ve got to say. When I was a kid, when I was in high school, I had a fascination with radio. Back in the days of 3KZ; 3DB; 3XY hot hits, all that kind of stuff.  I parked that and got a real job and became a schoolteacher.  Fast forward to about 2007 my daughter got involved in community radio at a local radio station.  One night her co-host didn’t turn up and she said, what do I do Dad? And I said I’m sticking in front of a microphone. And since then it’s been a long time but since I haven’t been in front of a microphone. It’s just what I do.  It’s my happy place.

Mark [1:14] That’s your joy.

Radio lets my introvert connect

Neil [1:16] Yeah, I think so. I’ve had one or two people point at me and say Neil’s, never met a microphone he doesn’t like and there’s a bit of that to it. I’ve had other people say everyone’s entitled to Neil’s opinion.  I think part of it is despite what those who know me would say, I’m a massive introvert. And the capability of being outgoing while being an introvert is something that I’ve managed over the years. When you’re on the radio or doing a podcast with someone, you don’t have that sort of extraversion requirement. Instead, you can be an introvert and just sort of engaging in a conversation with someone without all the other stuff going on around you.

Mark [1:54] Is it your way to connect to others?

Bringing the Football to People who can’t be there

Neil [1:58] I think it is.  There are two parts to the way I broadcast.  I do a fair bit of broadcasting around what I’ll describe is the best music of the past 70 years. (brackets the 60s 70s 80s) I do a lot of that.  That’s about – the people in my generation, I’m in my late 50s.  It’s about bringing back memories for a lot of people. I played that song and It reminds me when I was in high school, that sort of stuff. I think the other component of it is – I do quite a bit of sports broadcasting.  I broadcast VFL and VFL W football when it’s being played. And that’s just bringing the game that so many people love to them when they can’t be there.  It’s about sitting around for 5, 6, 7 hours depending upon how many games you’re doing at the time. And just talking about what’s going on in front of you. So yeah, I think it’s a real connection to people who love the stuff that I love.

Mark [2:47] How do you work at connecting to yourself each day?

Neil [2:55] That a really interesting question, I think as an introvert, you tend to make It – it’s an easier thing to do to connect with yourself. Do I do anything, you know, consciously to say right – how do I connect with me? No. I just think that the introversion component of it means, you’re getting your energy from yourself anyway. So, I don’t think I’d do anything specific or consciously to connect to myself as such, but just that’s kind of where I spend a lot of my time.

My Energy comes from Doing What I Love

Mark [3:26] Where do you draw your energy from within yourself?

Neil [3:32] These bit hard questions. Whatever happened to who got the most kicks on the half-back flank. It’s a lot easier to answer those questions. Where do I get my energy? I think it comes from doing things that I really enjoy. And I guess when you get to my age, you’ve seen lots of things that you’ve enjoyed yourself saying lots of things I haven’t enjoyed.  Kids always talk about the fact that they live to make their parents proud of them.  I think I tend to live to make my kids proud of me. I’ve got an adult daughter and adult son and I want them to think that I’m a reasonably up and about a person. I think I get the most joy out of putting smiles on their face and putting smiles on the face of the people who are happy to listen to me talk or play music.

Mark [4:19] Where did you get to radio voice from?

Not from Lee Murry’s Radio School

Neil [4:22] I bought it in a shop for $900, no. My mother used to tell me it’s because I drink black coffee rather than white coffee like my brother and sister and that I drink red wine instead of white wine. I think that’s not probably all that true. Where do people get a singing voice from? Where to get people get their ability to play guitar?  It’s just one of those things it’s there and when you talk as much as I do I suppose it gets into get into practice don’t you. I must say I really good microphone and a really good mixing desk does help.

Mark [4:52] You didn’t get a Lee Murray’s radio school in the early days?

Neil [4:55] No, I did not. You can tell the ones who did because they’re the ones who ‘go well welcome back now after that particular song by The Beatles.  I have a bit of a comic character that I occasionally do on the radio called Tad Blyden and Tad talks like that.  I just think most people can see through pretence and the fact that I’m being me – I am better at being me than I am at anybody else I found over the journey. And if I’m just being me, and people like me, that’s great and if they don’t – well that’s what the knob on the front of the radio or these days, the off button on the keyboard is for.

Connecting to my Enjoyment

Mark [5:31] And how much enjoyment to have just being you on radio and through your broadcasting?

Neil [5:38] On a scale of one to 10?

Neil [5:42] I don’t know how – I don’t know how you measure that. I just love it. It’s just one of those things that – there are people who pick up the knitting needles and knit a jumper and I couldn’t be any less interested. There are apparently people out there who enjoyed going out and spending time in the garden. Something I’ve never quite got my head around. And so, in my case, it’s just what I do when I am having fun.  The great thing about radio is you don’t know whether you’ve got nobody listening or you’ve got 100 million people listening to you. So, you don’t – if you’re doing a live theatre, and you’re doing a pub gig and you stand up on stage and nobody claps at the end of singing. That’s pretty demoralising. But in the case of radio that you don’t know.  I just missed my happy place and I just enjoy doing it.

Connecting to my Passion & Purpose

Mark [6:27] Do you believe you found your passion and your purpose in radio and broadcasting?

Neil [6:32] Absolutely. I think had I – do you have regrets? No, don’t believe in regrets, haven’t got time for regrets. But if I was to do it all again, yes I think I would go into radio. I think it’s something that I do reasonably well. There is some feedback you get – that thing I don’t know if you’ve stumbled over – it’s called the social media. It seems to jump up and hit us in the face most of the day. When you’re doing a bit of radio these days, you get feedback from your listeners that way. Because in the old day’s radio was very much one way. So, I think to be able to put a smile on their face and people ringing up and sending a text or sending a Facebook post saying, I really enjoyed what you did today. That’s a really nice feeling. So, it is – I guess my purpose – I don’t know probably a bit strong. I think the real reason I’m here is to be the best dad I can be to Lucy and Sam. But beyond that, I think radio is certainly a passion and really enjoy doing it. How can you make $1 out of it?

Men’s Connection via Sport

Mark [7:41] In coming to a connection with men, what I’ve noticed over the years is men do a lot of connections through their sporting clubs, playing football, cricket, etc, etc. And once they reach the age where they can have the white line fever.  What do you believe happens to the connections post sporting clubs?

Neil [8:07] Well, it’s interesting. I’ve had this conversation with my co-commentator, Rob, who does the ‘Two Blokes Chatting Radio show with me as well. And we talked a bit about this – that if you go – if you wind the clock back 50 years, the central of every certainly regional community was their church. And they would be often in some situation sometimes in town I taught many years ago, on the south side of the main street was where the Catholics lived. On the north side of the main street was where the Proddies lived and never the two should meet.  That was the centre of town though. It was the focus the attention, you’d often find your life partner by going along to the youth club. As the role of the church has sort of diminished significantly over the journey.

Sporting Clubs are the Centre of Regional Communities

[8:15] I think sporting clubs are becoming more and more that particularly footy clubs in – what we’ll call footballing states of Australia, and particularly in regional locations.  You’re seeing small town dying because the football club is merging with the town up the road. And I think when you can no longer old enough, sorry, when you’re too old when your longer gets on the ground to old to play.  In many instances, because the club has become the family focus, your kids are coming through and they’re now old enough to play footy. So, you’re then hanging around coaching, or you’re running the bar or you’re coming along watching kids play. So, I think there’s an ability to not reproduce, that’s not the right word. But you know, maybe there’s nothing going us about the involvement in a Sporting Club, particularly in regional towns, particularly smaller ones.

Mark [9:42] They tend to be the centre of the community are the sporting clubs like football and netball are all closely linked.  It’s the hub of the community.

Sports Links Country Communities

Neil [9:58] I think if you compare that with say an athletics club or a tennis club or something where typically you might have one or two people in a team. When you’ve got a club that’s got 25 people in every team at every level, it drags a lot of families into the one spot at the one time on a Saturday afternoon.  And I think that’s why it’s become the focus very much. And in a lot of those country towns, again, I go back to the little town Charlton that I lived in all those years ago. You’d go into the bank on a Monday morning and all anyone want to talk about what happened the footy on the weekend.

Mark [10:30] Such an important source of connection for a lot of people?

Neil [10:35] Oh, absolutely critical in a lot of small country towns particularly.

Mark [10:38] And as a teacher, can we go back ~ take you back in time to teaching and the connection to teaching. Where did that come about?

My Connection to Teaching

Neil [10:49] I think I was always going to be a teacher, primarily because my older brother was always going to be a teacher. I think that often that’s what happens in families and my sister ended up being a teacher and when I was married – I was married a teacher. My brother married a teacher and my daughter’s teacher. It seems to be one of those family things, I think.  Ironically, my mum and dad weren’t. It was a sensible role – a sensible job. You know, how we also have been sensible jobs in the late 70s. And so, when the opportunity arose to go into teaching, I was clever enough in one subject to get myself over the line.  That subject being physics that I could – I could never have been a physicist, but I could certainly teach it.  The old saying, if you can do – if you can’t teach and so I went and taught some kids how to do physics and mathematics for four or five years before I got sick of doing that. I then thought no, there’s got to be something else out there for me. So, I took a six-month break from teaching in 1988. Longest six months – known to man.

Mark [11:46] What was so long about it?

Neil [11:48] Well, six months is now up to 33 years I think in length. (Laughter)

Mark [11:56] Well done. Was there a redefining of yourself in those six months?

Connecting to Change

Neil [12:02] I think it probably was I was extremely fortunate. I happen to be in the right place at the right time. My second year out of teaching. I lobbed in a brand-new school and it was the first school in Victoria to have a computer centre built into its original design. And unlike most subject areas, if you were teaching mathematics, or physics or English or French or anything else, the most significant person in the school was the person who’d been doing it the longest. On the course in the case of information technology teaching or computer teaching, as it was called in those days. None of the old folk knew anything about it.  The old folks – the ones in their 30s. So, coming through as a young bloke who had done a little bit of computer programming at university as part of my course, I became the default computer coordinator.  Whereas, most schools are running around safety, school council can we have $5,000 to buy a computer. I had the phone number of the Minister of Education and we were putting in two and a half or $250,000 worth of computers into the first-ever computer Centre in the school. Now we’re going back in time to get some serious networking and stuff as it was in those days. So, the reason I got out of teaching was to well – apart from the fact I’d done everything I could, by the time I taught for five years.

Connecting to new Doors Opening

Neil [13:06] I thought it was important to pull the – whatever we’re teaching, the kids had to be reflective of what was going on when they left school.  And how do you do that when you’re only ever been in school or your life? So, I stepped out into an educational role with a significant multinational company. And to be perfectly Francis with you, the first reason was, it paid significantly more that was part of the deal. And thinking at that stage that we might start a family there was no way we could do that on one teacher’s wage. So, the fact that I was getting paid significantly more was great, but then I found a whole stack of new challenges. I was able to go and work on a project that went for 11 years that had me visit something like 75 different towns and cities across Australia and the southwest Pacific. It was just a real eye-opener for me and the boy who was going to be a science teacher and teach in regional Victoria for most of his life ended up jumping on aeroplanes and flying all over Australia in various parts of the world doing things that you never thought he would. I guess it redefined me.

Connecting to the WOW Podcast

Mark [14:12] In terms of your podcast, the WOW podcast. What created that for you? What was the idea, the light bulb moment that created that podcast for you?

Neil [14:28] Anyone who has had – being very kind of myself here by calling it a successful podcast. A podcast that does what you intended to do, is what I meant. I’m not talking about numbers of listeners necessarily. I think the WOWPOD does, what I want to do now.  But you never get there first go. I had three or four podcasts that I sort of did seven or eight episodes thought now that’s not quite. This one started off as a podcast called GBIZ, the GBIZ podcast. It was going to be Geelong businesses talking about what they do, who they are because I worked on the basis if you know the people who run the store, you’re more likely to use them or the business, you’re more likely to use them then than not. So, it was about introducing business owners in and around Geelong via podcasting.   Telling us a bit about why they started their own business. That was kind of the genesis of it. It didn’t work.  And then I walked away, and I had thought about it.  I thought it wasn’t so much, it was about Geelong businesses, it was what people had learned – that was the real gem out of it, if you like.

Wisdom ~ Reaching Out Far & Wide

Neil [15:00] So, I figured that having potentially 16,000 business owners, was in Geelong at the time, or seven-point, whatever billion people across the world who could be on WOWPOD.  I felt I was going to have a much bigger pool of people to draw from. There was going to be a whole stack of different kinds of people, everybody who is a business owner in and around Geelong has something in common. Whereas, I could just get people from literally anywhere in the world.  Literally anything that they did if they were able to communicate audibly in a way that we can understand what that was saying.  I could interview them pretty much. And so, the idea was, we needed to sort of hone in on the things that people have learned along the way. Now that could be don’t run upstairs carrying scissors, or it could always be yourself. It could be quite philosophical, or it could be quite practical and that’s where it came from. It’s turned out that people really enjoy it, which is what it’s all about.

Mark [16:25] What’s the most significant wow point for you in your life so far?

My Major WOW point in Life

Neil [16:31] It’s a bit like saying which one’s your favourite kid, isn’t it? I think and I guess it comes back to be a Dad.  Realising that, to be a Dad is arguably well and or Mum – clearly, for me, I didn’t see myself as being a Mum. So, for me, being a Dad is the most significant, most responsible, most grown-up thing that I’d ever become. And I guess at that point of time, the realisation that, yes, you’ve heard the expression, “a dogs not for Christmas”. Well, it’s a bit the same with kids, they tend to hang around too. And they look to you for leadership and they look to you for learning and they look to you for love, and they look to you for all sorts of stuff. And the responsibility – the dawning of that on me to say, actually what you’re in this for life. Is both a scary and very exciting thing to happen to somebody almost 30 years ago. So, I guess that’s the biggest wow.

Mark [17:32] As men connecting to their children, are we improving that connection to our children?

Men’s Connections are Changing

Neil [17:40] It’s difficult to say I, when my children were in year eight, and year 12, we as a family separated, and so they spent much of where 95% of the time, I guess, with their Mum. It was an amicable, separation. So there was no difficulty in seeing them when I wanted to see them, but I think my connection with them changed at that point. So rather than being the one who was around all the time I had to make the time I spent with them, count. And I think on that basis, you put more effort into connecting with your kids. I think others who go through that separation thing, take that opportunity to become less connected with their kids and disappear off and do other things. But to me, so I guess I’m not well, sadly, I’m becoming more and more normal, aren’t I?

COVID19 is Teaching Us Connection

Neil [18:34] But, how do my friends who have got kids, connect – it’s hard and I think we are.  I think, when you’re listening to this, you may be listening to this in 2,3,4, 5 years, who knows? This has been recorded in July 2020. We are in the middle of COVID-19 and all the lockdown stuff that’s going on still in Melbourne. I think people are spending more time with their kids because they must. And they are becoming heavily engaged with their children’s education because they must. And I think there are a lot of people who are going to come out the other side this COVID thinking, you know what, I quite enjoyed that. I’m going to see what I can do to improve the connection that I’ve got with my kids, my wife, my partner, my whoever, my family, my friends. Because I’ve had this opportunity to either be stuck in a house with them, or in the case of family, or friends. I haven’t seen them. And I think that’s going to be a major change in the way people interact with each other going forward.

Men’s Old Social Conditioning

Mark [19:34] Good point. Men social conditioning, you’re in your late 50’s, do you think that part of our social conditioning, the old social conditioning is responsible for the lack of connection that men can sometimes have?

Neil [19:53] I think it is. I think there are so many factors and we’re not going to solve that in half an hour. But I think if you get asked the for each paintbrush and sort of slap a picture together. I think, there’s going to be the people who are significantly more conservative people potentially who believed in small country towns. Again, not to have a go with them at all – but I think often the conservative – the more conservative the growing up environment, the more likely that social conditioning has happened. My father, his dad was a grocer. And in fact, both my mom and dad are only children. So, we have a very narrow family. I don’t have an uncle; I don’t have an auntie I don’t have a cousin. So, the opportunity to see how other families operate is unusual for me. I don’t have the stats on it, but I suspect, to be a very, very small number of people. So, what I’m seeing is very much my experience rather than seeing the experience of others around me.  But I think the social conditioning of my parents my dad was, was born before the Second World War.  He grew up during wartime and his parents went through the Great Depression. Then that amazing period of prosperity in the 50s and 60s and early 70s that Australia had. So, I think there have been periods where that Dad goes to work and Mum stays at home kind of stuff was very much ingrained in people.  I think the people of my age group let’s call it between 40 and 70 are still – had that ingrained into them.  But they are starting to move and hopefully the next generation, the generation of my kids, I think that social – what’s the word I’m looking for? Do you know what I mean? That can be social conditioning. I just like distancing. That’s a word we always use. That social conditioning, I think has been reduced a bit.

Connecting to our Change Social Conditioning

Mark [21:46] Have your children help you reassess some of that old conditioning and they’re wanting the connection with you. So, then that’s redefining your old version of your old social conditioning?

Neil [22:01] I don’t know that it’s an ongoing process. And I don’t think that’s a deliberate process. I guess they are the two most important people in my life. So, therefore, they have the most influence on me. So, if I’m changing, I guess their prime drivers for it. And I think, people who are listening to this whose kids are 5, 7, 8, that sort of age group, they’re going to say, well, they’re changing my approach as well. But, you know, I can now sit and have a professional conversation with my daughter because they’re both been schoolteachers. My son, he works in commercial real estate and so we can have sensible business conversations. So, it’s a totally different connection with them on top of the family stuff that we would otherwise do. So, are they challenging me? I guess they are a bit. They’re the ones that keep on telling me, stop putting on your radio voice Dad. And I wouldn’t wear stretchy jeans if I were you Dad, that sort of stuff. They’re very strong on that.

Mark [22:55] Mate, that went out with buttoned-up underwear.

Neil [22:58] That’s it, yeah.

Connecting to ‘All That Is ~ ‘Aha Moments’

Mark [23:02] Moving the conversation along to the ‘All That Is” what in life gives you the aha moments? Is that a screamer on the Kardinia Park or the MCG? What is it that gives you that ‘Aha Moment’ in life?

Neil [23:18] Well, let me start off by correcting you that I am a Brisbane Lions supporter. So, it would be a screamer on the Gabba – it wouldn’t be a screamer on Kardinia Park.  Except when I’m commentating when, of course, if I am commentating a VFL W game or a VFL game, it is in fact, a Geelong game. So, umm what’s my…I don’t know. I think I’m the sort of person who tends to be – I tend to live in the moment. I don’t do a lot of planning. I don’t do a lot of stop serious think.  I tend to respond to things. So, I think my ‘Aha stuff’ often relates to ideas that I’ve had. That are clear when I’m sitting in front of a microphone – there’s a bit of ‘Aha’ going on. But I think, a lot of people who look at me think that I don’t actually settle into very much serious and I do.

Neil [24:12] But my energy levels are such that I tend to think It’s around ideas. I think, when I see a good idea, I generally ‘Aha Aha’ that’s…Is that kind of making sense?

Mark [24:24] Yes, makes sense. When you get the ‘Aha’ is that like a Wow moment too?

Connecting to the WOW moments

Neil [24:31] I tend to steer away from word wow.

Neil [24:34] Just because it’s on the wall here behind me. I’ve got some excellent decals that have been put up on the wall with my various brands. They went up yesterday, and I’m looking and there’s the word ‘Wow’ written across the wall. And sometimes ‘Aha’ can be not wow, it can be kind of no. But often, I make a choice and I think everyone can make this choice. I make a choice to always look, I’m going to quote ‘Monty Python’ here “always look on the bright side of life”. And I’m not going whistle. But I tend to look at a situation and go, what is it about this? That’s good. That tends to be the choice that I’ve made. So, more often than not, and an ‘Aha’ will be a ‘Wow’ if I use that word, but the occasion it’s not.

Mark [25:19] And then to action, the idea of how much ‘Wow’ and ‘Aha’ is in actioning the idea?

Ideas & Actioning Change

Neil [25:27] I had this conversation with someone just about half an hour ago or half an hour before we started chatting, and I’m really good at coming up with ideas.  Delivering them here, maybe not. So, if I can find a job where someone said, sits in the corner over there, and I have an idea, yell out and we’ll give you $10,000 I would be in heaven. Because I could spend the rest of the time doing radio. I think that there is a – there is no doubt that there is always a great deal of satisfaction when you do deliver on an idea. But I think the delivery – I’m much more in terms of getting coming up with the ideas then delivering it if I was being brutally honest with myself.

Mark [26:08] So, you’re an ideas man, mate.

Neil [26:10] That’s it. I hate that expression, but yes, I am. (Laughter).

Mark [26:13] I had to drop that one in. (Laughter).

Neil [26:15] Thank you.

Mark [26:16] Do you like that one?

Neil [26:18] Yeah, no thanks. That’s great.

My Advice for Younger Neil

Mark [26:21] In terms of advice, what advice would you have for young Neil now about to embark on his journey in life?

Neil [26:30] Do radio as distinct from teaching. I think I would have been a much better radio announcement than I would have been a teacher. And I certainly I suspect, I would have enjoyed it more. I mean, don’t get me wrong. I really enjoyed teaching. I really enjoyed having a positive impact on a group of probably three or 400 young people who are now – not so young people. I had a pointed at the other day, my oldest ex-student is 54, that’s sobering.  But I think, have a crack. It’s just a great Australian expression. When the time comes Episode 100 of WOWPOD – I’ve got to find someone to interview me as the WOW podder. And I think one of the pieces of wisdom I will be imparting, has a crack. It’s in my mind, it is so much better to have a crack, stuff it up, and then go back and say, well, that didn’t work than not.  Who was it that said, life’s not a dress rehearsal.  Have a go at it. Another thing I would also do and this is me and my retro music.  There’s a bloke called Jim Keays he used to head up a band called ‘The Master’s Apprentices‘. He was in the lovely bloke Jim. I had the opportunity to interview him once and he had a piece of music he wrote, called, ‘Because I Love You‘, and the opening line to the chorus – ‘did what you want to do, be what you want to be, yeah.’  I think that some really good advice for a young person as well. Don’t do what society says you have to. That doesn’t mean go out and break the rules. I’m saying when Mum and Dad say to you – teachings a sensible idea, or why don’t you go and be a lawyer like I was or whatever else. Do what you want to do – be what you want to be. Because I think it’s a really important thing that you find a passion and follow it.

Connecting to my Five Wow Points

Mark [28:16] Well done.  What are your five Wow points?

Neil [28:21] Well given you two of them (Laughter).

Mark [28:23] Another three? (Laughter)

Neil [28:25] And fortunately, I’ve just recorded Episode 56, so I’ve got another 44 episodes before I had to come up with mine. But I think it’s – there two of them undoubtedly. Have a crack = go and have a go if it all falls over. I think another thing is to that I’ve learned over the journey and you can put this onto a football field, you can put this into a workplace. I go back to probably the mid-90s. We had a new boss came in and he headed up our retail division of the company I was working for at the time.  He stood up in front of a group and he said, now I’ve got an important principle I want to share with you.  That is, I want you to make mistakes, once.  And the message in it was – that if you don’t make mistakes, you’re not pushing yourself hard enough. But if you don’t learn from the mistake, you will come back and do the same thing. So, you can make that number three, but these will change by the time I get to Episode 100. So, don’t listen to Episode 100 WOWPOD when it comes out. But I think that’s an important thing, make mistakes because often – if you’re out on a footy field, and I’m coaching the football side and someone makes a mistake, I am less concerned about the making the mistake.  And I’m far more interested in how they respond to it to make up for that mistake, that’s a really important component of it as well. So, that’s kind of have a crack but it’s a little bit different. Make mistakes and own them.

Great to Stop & Reflect

Mark [29:41] Well done. Really ~ yeah, it’s important advice. Anything else Neil that we’ve missed that you want to quickly share as we draw it to a close?

Neil [29:53] No, I think if people are still listening. No, it’s been good fun to stop and have a reflection every day. I think that’s another piece of wisdom. It’s okay to stop and reflect. I live my life at a million miles an hour and people look at me and go, I don’t know how you get stuff into your day. And I don’t either sometimes.  It’s okay to stop and reflect – some people do meditation. Meditation just does not work for me. I spend the entire time of meditation sitting there thinking I should be doing something else, you should be doing something else. Because sitting down is not something I do happily. So I think I reflect by sitting and listening to music. I reflect by going for a walk but don’t miss the opportunity to stop and go, I’ve just done something, did I do it, well. I think that’s an important thing as well.

Mark [30:38] Great. Thank you for that advice. Neil, thank you very much for the opportunity to connect with you via Podcasting. I really enjoyed your sense of humour.  Would have loved to have had an opportunity to have a laugh down that line one day ~ that’ll be quite humorous, I could imagine just bouncing off each other.  Because men ~ I think men have got a wonderful sense of humour. They’re very witty in the one-liner that men can come up with. There’s a lot of humour in that and there’s a lot of connection in that.

Neil [31:12] Absolutely.

Mark [31:12] I look forward to touching base with you again soon.

Neil [31:16] Thanks mark.

Mark [31:17] Thanks, Neil. Cheers.


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